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'Subvert and Profit' Tries to Subvert Top Digger, Profit From It

Subvert and Profit is soon to become the latest in many failed attempts to try and game socially driven news and content sites such as Digg. Here's a look at how they're different, the tactics they are employing, and why they will fail.

First of all, what distinguishes Subvert and Profit from previous similarly intentioned ventures is they boast that the privacy of the users that join them in their dirty tactics will not be compromised, and that they have devised a mechanism that prevents Digg from flagging their users.

Knowledge is power, and particularly, Digg's knowledge of suspicious activity is banning power. Digg will have no such knowledge, as we've engineered a few tricks to ensure that our users' activity (and access to their user page) appears normal.

The site works by paying Diggers $0.50 ($0.75 to the first 500 users) for every gamed story they Digg, and the creators think that this venture will succeed and be profitable based on the flawed assumption that every Digg front-page story (or at least on average) gets 25,000 visits.

The creators are hard at work, trying to prevent the foreseeable demise of this site and have gone so far as to try and enlist the help of at least one top Digg user.

From: Ragnar Danneskjold [black.marketer@gmail.com]

Date: Apr 3, 2007 8:09 PM
Subject: Subvert and Profit, a new Digg gaming website
To: [email-address removed]

Karim,

Have you seen our site yet? (http://subvertandprofit.com/) We know you have a success rate of almost 50%, so we'd love to talk to you about how you have "legitimately" gained power on Digg. We'd also love to hear your thoughts on our site.

Thanks,

Ragnar Danneskjold [pseudonym]

As a former top-10 ranked Digger, I can tell you, while I am often highly critical of Digg (to the point where people think I hate the site), I do this because I want it to improve. And along these lines, neither myself, or any other top-ranked member of such a socially driven community would ever help a site whose sole purpose is to abuse the system (this is specifically why the email was forwarded to me). Good try, but no thanks!

Ultimately though, I think all of Stan's predictions are going to come true. This venture will gain a little prominence, then the uninformed media will start attacking Digg and try to poke holes in how the site functions (and make claims regarding its impending doom), all the while Digg will continue to function as before.

Russ Jones has already poked some holes in the purported armor of Subvert and Profit and has expanded on 5 reasons why this site and all others like it will fail. As I have said many times before, use social media to your advantage, don't abuse it.

**Disclaimer: I am a Netscape Navigator.

Russ Jones, April 4, 2007

It is frustrating that users are being coaxed into believing that their participation in sites like Subvert and Profit...

1. Is largely anonymous
2. Will earn them significant income

First, as I outlined in the post on theGoogleCache, these activities are not wholly anonymous. There are, in fact, quite a few methods for determining if you are participating in such a network.

Secondly, such vote-rigging sites depend on being semi-effective. If they are too effective, the community will dwindle because of the spam-riddled content that now fills the homepage. If they are unsuccessful, no one will use the program. Thus, a proportion of users getting caught and banned, and a limited, restricted clientel are required to make this industry work. If you are making a lot of money on a site like Subvert and Profit, you can rest assured that it will not last long.

What is, perhaps, the most frustrating of sites like Subvert and Profit is that they are unnecessary. Creative thinking, writing, and heavy legitimate participation in a web 2.0 community is all that is needed to succeed. Sure, you won't get your first post to the front page, maybe not even your 50th. But after a while of collecting friends, building reputations, and learning what people want to see and read, you will develop the skills to market effectively to web 2.0 communities.

Or, worst case scenario, you can pay consultants to help you. Either way, you do not need to "rig" the system to win, you just have to learn how to play the game.

There is enough room for everyone to win without cheating.

Talouze, April 4, 2007

I don't understand why you think Subvert and Profit is so doomed to fail. Is Digg really so superior that they will simply deflect S&P with a shield of armor? Are Digg users really so loyal that they won't accept $0.50 for a Digg? Will advertisers really not pay $50 to $100 for 100 Diggs and probable front page coverage with 25,000 visitors? The answers to these questions is a resounding no.

Ben, April 4, 2007

Obviously the creator of S&P has read Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". Ragnar Danneskjold is one of the characters... a pirate working for the forces of 'good'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CharactersinAtlas_Shrugged

Somehow I think the creator of S&P has their definition of good a little screwed up.

Keri Morgret, April 5, 2007

I had a good ironic chuckle at the Ragnar name too, but wondered if the person had actually read Atlas Shrugged, or just skimmed the Cliff Notes. Wesley Mouch seems to be a more apt name for the sender.

Stephen, May 8, 2007

diggbarter.com is better implemented and doesn't require money to advertise your site. Plenty of scope to sell your credit on that system once it becomes more popular.